Taking Advantage Of Podcast Expertise To Expand The Reach Of Your Show – On-Air Podcast Coaching With Patrick Veroneau Of The Learning From Leaders Podcast (Podfaded)


On today’s show, Tracy Hazzard does a strategic coaching session with Patrick Veroneau, the host of Learning From Leaders podcast. As the CEO of the Emery Leadership Group LLC since 2008, Patrick has been passionately identifying and researching the most effective behaviors to help individuals, teams, and organizations rise above their best as leaders. Get a sense of how coaching looks like, sounds like, and feels like as Tracy and Patrick explore what business model or tactic works for him and his show to expand his reach further and have better engagement with his audience.

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Taking Advantage Of Podcast Expertise To Expand The Reach Of Your Show – On-Air Podcast Coaching With Patrick Veroneau Of The Learning From Leaders Podcast

I am doing a strategic coaching session with Patrick Veroneau and his podcast is called Learning From Leaders. He has over 115 episodes. He’s been doing it since 2018. It’s merged a couple of times with a couple of different name changes but now, it is Learning From Leaders and I liked the concept that he has going on there. The subtitle is Because Leaders Are Learners, which I truly believe. The whole purpose of my podcast is to learn from the community and to help you learn as well. What’s going to work for me? What’s going to be best for my show? What business model do I have that matches me the best that this show or this tactic might work for me? That’s my ultimate goal of bringing you these types of shows.

I’m glad that I have such wonderful clients who are more than willing to do these coaching sessions so that you get a sense of how does coaching works. What are they getting from that? What are they thinking about? Those things might be the same and you didn’t verbalize them to anyone, or you don’t have anyone to talk to about it. You don’t have a coach. I wanted to give you a sense of what that looks like, sounds like, and feels like to be a part of that. They’re gracious that they’re happy to share because there are such good shares to begin with as podcast hosts. I absolutely loved that about the community here.

Patrick Veroneau is the President of Emery Leadership Group and hosts a weekly podcast called Learning From Leaders. His graduate work is in organizational leadership and he is trained extensively in the areas of emotional intelligence, influence, and personality. Many of the models he has developed are rooted in the research and real-world experiences from these three disciplines. He focused his career on helping individuals, teams, and organizations re-imagine what it means to lead and succeed on a more conscious level.

He’s a member of the Forbes Coaches Council, the Harvard Business Review Advisory Council, the National Speakers Association, and he is an adjunct instructor for SMCC. He’s got some great guests on there. You’re going to have to check it out. John Lee Dumas, if you’re a podcast aficionado, you know who he is, and he was on early in January of 2020. He’s got some interesting conversations that he’s bringing about in his show.

He’s sitting there actively learning along with you as an audience. That’s his binge factor. He may not realize it but he’s such a good listener and learner that he asked the right questions at the right time. We, as listeners, aren’t going, “You didn’t follow up.” That frustrating moment we all have as listeners when they went onto the next prepared question, Patrick doesn’t do that. He does sit down, think this through, actively listening to his guests, and knows how he wants to guide the conversation because he truly understands the leaders he expects are in his audience, and that is working for him. Let’s find out how we can help make his show even more effective.

About Learning From Leaders Podcast Host Patrick Veroneau

TBF 75 | Expanding Your ReachPatrick Veroneau is the President of Emery Leadership Group (2008) and hosts a weekly podcast called, Learning from Leaders (2018).

His graduate work is in Organizational Leadership and he has trained extensively in the areas of emotional intelligence, influence and personality. Many of the models he has developed are rooted in the research and real-world experiences from these three disciplines.
Patrick has focused his career on helping individuals, teams and organizations reimagine what it means to lead and succeed on a more conscious level.

As well, he is a member of Forbes Coaches Council, the Harvard Business Review Advisory Council, the National Speakers Association and is an adjunct instructor for SMCC.

LinkedIn | Website | YouTube | Facebook | Instagram

Patrick, thank you so much for joining me. I’m excited to talk about your show and where you’re going. You’ve changed your show name a little bit over time, so your show has already shifted over the 115 episodes. Tell everybody about that journey.

The show started out as Rise Above Your Best. A lot of my work is in leadership, team building, individual team, and organizational leadership. I was in this space of re-imagining what does it mean to lead. Even though I still do that now, in terms of the models that I use and the approaches that I take, I thought as a show, I will change it up as well in terms of what does it mean to lead. I then went to Lead Like No Other. What I found with that was people thought, that means there must only be one kind of leader. Only one person can be a leader. That’s not it at all. The whole idea behind that in terms of leading no other was to say that we needed to do things differently.

Sometimes how we hear our brands or names isn’t how they end up being received by the audience we hope to have a conversation with.

I was working with a coach myself at that point and he said, “That’s how that comes across.” We brainstormed in terms of what am I doing. In the interviews, I do a lot of monologues around the research that I use in my own business and trying to put it in a format that people can apply. It’s not research anymore, it’s how do you apply this to the real world. We went with where we are now, which is Learning From Leaders.

I love this title because it’s perfect. I’m in the right place because this is what I want.

I am a learner. Leaders are learners. Through this process, at first, I was like, “Can I change it again?” To me, it speaks to like, “I’m learning as I go as well, what works and what doesn’t work.” It’s the same thing with leading teams or organizations.

That’s why I never want to get rid of my show because this is my chance to continually learn and to keep up on the industry. Some of us have that as our return on investment from time. It’s an opportunity to learn. It’s this opportunity to do that. What is your return on investment expectations from the podcast? It may have changed over time, but what is it now? What do you expect to get from your show?

More exposure to my website in terms of having people get a greater understanding of what I do, the models that I put together, and how they work. When I started this, it was something that I had wanted to do two years prior. I had bought all of the equipment and it sat in a box. I kept saying, “I’m going to do it.” I remember it was in August of 2018, I said, “The show is going to go live by Labor Day.” That’s what I did. I’ve run the show ever since then on a weekly basis.

Who’s the ideal audience for you?

If I’m looking for people that are going to be able to make the decision on, this is somebody that we want to have in is first. It would be people at an executive level that can bring somebody like myself into their organization. That said, in terms of my audience, it’s also somebody that’s on the front line of leading. They’re trying to figure this thing out as well in terms of, “I got promoted from the team that I was on and now I’m taking it over.” That’s a different skillset. How do I make sure that I don’t mess this thing up?

Don’t get rid of your show because it’s your opportunity to continually learn and to keep up with the industry. Click To Tweet

It’s a little more corporate-driven, so organizations of what size?

It can be anywhere from 25 employees up to over 1,000 employees at this point.

It’s the size of a company and the scope of the type of leadership experiences that they may have within that and you’re looking at exposure within that particular audience. Now that you’ve been doing your show for quite some time, what do you do with your show once it goes live?

In terms of what I do is I will put it out on LinkedIn and I will then tag it to Facebook. That is all that I do at this point which is not enough for where I want to go. I’m still in this mindset of, “I do the show because I love it. It’s an extension of what I do.” That helps me to keep me doing it but also hurts me in terms of looking and saying, “You need to leverage this thing,” because I’ve had some great interviews with some unbelievable leaders as well as providing some strong research in regards to what it means to lead now. Leading now, especially in 2020 alone, it’s not even what it was a year ago in terms of the skillset that we need. That’s what I’m finding. There’s a misalignment between leader’s expectations and their behaviors and what the realities are of those people that they’re asking to follow where they want to go.

Thinking about it from this perspective is that you have a group of people who you’ve already helped or in the process of helping. They’re your clients so you have them within your community. Prior to the podcast or for the general part of your business, where do you get your most referrals or business from?

I would say most of my business comes from two sources. One is through LinkedIn. Me reaching out to other organizations that are on there, connecting with people, and reaching out that way. The other half is through organizations that I work with. It’s networking through them. As you can imagine, that’s the easiest of the business because there’s already a track record there.

Thinking about that, why would we sit back and say, “We’ve got this podcast, great useful content, and lots of information that could service my existing network of people that I already have worked with before and already have. There are nuggets in there that they may not even know about. It can make it easier for me to do outreach that doesn’t seem too pushy and too salesy?” We’ve got all this wonderful bucket of information, tools, and content that we can use, and yet you’re not using it beyond, “Here’s my shot.” It sounds like I’m picking on you, but this is common that you have 115 shows that have great content. You could probably barely remember them all.

I have trouble with mine. There are great things there that they could find but they’re not finding it. We look at what we call an evergreen strategy. It’s bringing up things again and again because there are new people in your community that weren’t there in 2018 that didn’t get some of those early nuggets of information that you had. Some people haven’t heard your perspective yet. How do we get these pieces and parts moving to be more useful in that model of business growth that you already know works? If we already know that LinkedIn is working through these two models of outreach and networking, then let’s make LinkedIn outreach and networking work even more for you by being of service with your show. How does that sound?

I love it.

What does that look like? When I listened to your show, you have shows that are solo casts where you’re talking about topics and you’ve got things that you want to discuss, which are valuable. One of the ones that I loved the most that you put out this 2020 was discussing the idea of we’re not in unprecedented times because of a pandemic, financial crisis, health crisis and social crisis. Who knows how to lead in that? None of us have had to go through it quite the same way before. 9/11 is the time that comes the closest to it because we did have a financial crisis. In a way, it was a social crisis, a crisis of security.

We undoubtedly had a physical crisis for some of us who were living on the East Coast and couldn’t move around the country at that moment in time. Luckily, that was short-lived to that part it didn’t last a whole year but that was the closest to it. Few people have experience leading like that. Being able to put that perspective in places, a wonderful viewpoint articulating that way was a wonderful way to say it to people and not in an alarmist way. It was like, “Cut yourself some slack. This is hard. We all are figuring this out. Let’s figure it out together.” Here are some of my favorite episodes of some people who gave me some tips. You refer to some of your other shows and interviews when you’re in that episode.

TBF 75 | Expanding Your Reach
Leaders are learners

You’re doing that cross-referencing there. Let’s do the cross-referencing in LinkedIn and networking groups. Whether it’s sending out an email to the head of the networking group and saying, “I know that all of your members are dealing with this right at this moment. I wanted to offer up some specially curated group of shows that might be valuable to them for these reasons.” You give them the shortlist of shows. Who doesn’t want to put that list in their newsletter for you? You gave them topics. You gave them something that he or she didn’t have before. It didn’t say, “Highlight me.” It said, “Here are some things that are of service to your community.” Half of mind.

It’s a great idea. I heard you guys talking about getting a top five list or top ten favorites list which is a great idea too.

You don’t have to call it favorites. You can talk about it as the most critical episodes to listen to. They could be something that is dealing with at any time when the world shifts and now we’re having a crisis of privacy. We could have data privacy. You’ve got these five episodes that are perfect for us to listen to. One of your data privacy experts who came on the show and was interviewed in a way that you’re talking about how to create a sense of security, whatever it might be. You create a list that’s curated for those purposes. You can put them on video. Are you doing video?

I only leverage the audio at this point but I do have a video library.

If you’ve got a video library, you can always put them into the short playlist which makes it easy to add them to your website. If not, you make categories in your blogs for those episodes. You give them a category tag and then you only serve those up in the section or on that page of it. It’s a simple blogging strategy that you can get any web developer to help you with. It’s easy. Retag the episodes you want the blogs from them and then they only display in that area. You don’t have to make this complex. You certainly don’t have to create anything new which we don’t want to do.

Now that we’ve got some of these episodes and we’ve started to categorize them and realize they’re going to help these networking communities, how can I make sure to circulate them out and share them into those communities? We might want to go back to those episodes and pull out clips. We can pull out and make audiograms. Make video from the clip, which is a static image with an audio file and the captioning running underneath that doesn’t have to be that.

You could get on Zoom and create a quick short clip that introduces why you’re sharing this episode. You’re creating a video to go with the share of the show and not leaving it to being the show only. One of the things that we do here is to remember that not everyone is a podcast audience who’s savvy to podcasting. The number one place most people find new shows is from friends and Google. We want to make sure that out there, we’re sharing the show in other ways and other formats that get better visibility.

On social media, the video gets better visibility. How can we create a little bit of video and help to get our podcast noticed? A couple of simple ways is audiograms. They are perfect, minute-long ones. They don’t have to be long. We can help you create them. Headliner is one of the apps that lots of people use to create audiograms for social media. You have a virtual assistant or someone who’s working for you to do that as well. Choosing the clip, that’s where you come into play. This is not something you should step out.

You should choose the clip because you understand your audience. It shouldn’t be soundbitey. It should be useful and something that you know they’re going to engage with, respond to and find useful because your target audience is out there. They’re looking for it because they’re learners and learners like to ask questions. When they see it and hear it, they’re going to either want to go through and explore it, listen to the whole episode, and check out the blog.

Whatever it might be that you shared, they’re going to check that out and an article that you wrote as well. All of those things are going to be there but they’re also going to reach back and ask you a question. Now, you’re going to start engagement. The other strategy, which I love to use in LinkedIn, is a strategy of once you share a short video, a question that you might be asking or setting up a context to why you’re sharing this episode. You don’t have to call it an old episode. They have no idea.

Look at the evergreen strategy brings up things again and again because there are always new people in your community. Click To Tweet

In your blog posts, they don’t know that there’s a page with an audio file. Share it in a new way saying, “This is content we’re sharing, and here’s why I’m sharing this with you because you can utilize this to help you move forward, learn how to do this, and succeed in your new leadership role.” Whatever that might be you’re giving that context for. After you’ve posted it, tag and comment to one of your great past clients or current clients and say, “I was especially thinking of you at so-and-so because of your new promotion,” or “I was especially thinking of you because you have a team that’s this big.” Whatever it might be, you’re framing it in context and then invite them.

Ask them a question as if they’re the expert, especially if they’re your former clients. They’ve gone through your program, you want to highlight them as being good at what they’re doing, you then say, “Do you have any additional tips you could share?” They won’t pass up. You ask them a pointed question and you tag them. You’re going to create engagement in your post and their friends, followers, and colleagues are going to see that. That creates a more robust community knowledge of you. You are the facilitator of that.

What I like about that is there’s an interaction. I’m 1 of 5 people that are tagged on and I don’t do anything with it.

You’re not going to do it for five people. You’re going to pick one person showing you’re acknowledging them, care about them, and you’ve been following them. You know they’ve got a promotion or they’ve been doing something new and you’re acknowledging their skill. In that process, that says a lot to other people. It’s not about what you have to say, it’s about how the community can benefit. I love that strategy for you. You’re creating conversations, not just pushing information.

That’s what it feels like at times.

Sometimes it feels like push, right?


That’s why you don’t love sharing your show. You’re like, “I shared my show.” It’s because it feels pushy. That is the hard part about being a podcaster. We’re here on the other side of the mic. It’s not like being at an event, everybody raises their hand and nodding. You don’t get to see that. Where can we create that happening? We sometimes have to work with the tools that we have tagging and commenting. These are the tools that we’ve got to work with so let’s use them.

At times, it’s a lonely world being on this side of it because you don’t get a lot of interaction and feedback. I will run into people and they’d be like, “I listened to that show. I love that show.” I would never know that they had listened and loved it because they didn’t comment on it or liked it. They didn’t do anything.

My favorite part was when we did our very first show. We did 600 episodes and we did one a day, and then we moved down. We slowly ratcheted down to one a week. We would take time off and we told people we’re going to take time off. We were always like, “Our daughter is getting married. We’re going to take the summer off.” When we didn’t come back, they messaged us. When you’re not there, they do miss you. That is something that will happen.

TBF 75 | Expanding Your Reach
Expanding Your Reach: There’s a misalignment between leaders’ expectations and their behaviors and the realities of the people they’re asking to follow them where they want to go.


I was like, “Put something on there then if you like it.”

I did notice that you have some gaps in the dates of time periods in your show. There’s no reason for you not to do some reshuffling. There’s no magic to having started your show in 2018. If you want to reshuffle some shows, they’re not going to get reserved up because they were already listened to by your existing subscribers. To someone new who finds them, if you’ve got some of those early shows and then you’ve got time gaps, you might want to re-date them, republish them, and move them into those spaces. Double-check the episodes, make sure you didn’t say it’s 2017 or something like that. You can always edit that out or do something about it. Moving a show into a more relevant date so that new listeners who might come backwards through your show don’t miss some of these wonderful episodes that are valuable. Thinking about that listener’s experience.

That’s something I wouldn’t have thought of doing either. I know that there have been a couple of spots where either the week got away from me or I got busy. I’m in one of those right now.

I noticed. That’s why I mentioned it. I was not trying to out you and give you a hard time. I noticed that you hadn’t posted for most of November 2020, so that’s an issue. That happens to everybody. There are a lot of shows with pandemic gaps. I got into a huge argument with a podcaster who’s a PR person. I put her on my calendar. I thought the show was relevant and everything. In the time between the time I saw her show initially and said, “You can come on my show,” the pandemic started. All of this is happening two months until she was on my show and she didn’t post a single episode. Her show was to help college students learn remotely.

It was a show about that. I thought, “You dropped all those college students who don’t even know what to do for these two months. You didn’t provide them any help and you want me to give you promotion by putting you on my show.” Especially when you are there for a particular demographic and a particular purpose, and you didn’t show up for them during that pandemic gap time because you were dealing with your own stuff, which is totally valid, but there’s no reason for you not to move stuff around later.

I don’t recommend what I call re-runs. If you didn’t have a show this week and you choose an old episode and you re-run it, don’t do that. Your subscribers will get pissed at you and they will send you nasty messages. It will look like it’s brand new and they will see it. If you’re filling in open times that have already passed, they won’t see it if they listen to the episode completely. Don’t do a re-run strategy. I can tell you it fails.

You know you’ve outed me. I will let you know that I had an interview before our interview with somebody for a new book and I’ve got two others in the queue.

That’s good. You’re back on schedule. This is a good strategy for you, Patrick. They don’t need to be long episodes. You should always have a set of half a dozen short episodes that you have that you could easily publish. I do a lot of live stream coaching so I’ve got a stack of them. They’re sitting there. I pick one and go, “I’m going to air that one next week because my interview fell through.” It gives me an opportunity to drop something and that’s under ten minutes long but it gives me something to serve the community and keep that consistency. One of the things that leaders have to do is we have to show up day-after-day whether we like it or not. We suck it up when we’re sick. You know how that is. We have to demonstrate that as coaches and consultants. It’s harder for us. We have a lot of business that we juggle but we have to try to put that in. Having a system for yourself to back yourself up is always a good plan.

What I noticed out of this, Tracy, is that momentum takes over either way. I’m on week three without a show. I’ve never done that before ever. It was like, “I’m going to post that one tomorrow out on my day.” I caught that of like, “I can’t go to week four.”

We don’t want to go to week four because when we go to week four, some of the podcast players have an algorithm that kicks in and stops pushing us to our subscriber base. The subscriber has to notice they missed your show and re-download it. It doesn’t automatically go into their favorites list. It automatically downloads if they have it set for that. Some of them may have to re-trigger your show so when you come back after a break, you can see this dip that happens in your stats.

Make sure that you’re sharing your show in ways and formats that get better visibility. Click To Tweet

We want to avoid that. What I do recommend is, if you’re going to be gone and you know you need to take time off, like I did for my daughter’s wedding, you plan a show every three weeks that you’ve already prerecorded and you drop it in and say, “Everything’s going well. I’ll be back but I thought I would share this idea with you.” You’d give them 5 or 10 minutes of something interesting. That way, you hit that three-week mark, you don’t lose that gap time, and you keep everybody going, “Where are you? That’s where you are. You’re still going, the show is going to come back and we’ll wait for you. We acknowledge that you’re human. You’ve got a life and that’s okay.”

You’re dropping in something. That’s what I recommend to even people who do drop seasons. You do some things to entice them or touch-base with them once a month in between your seasons. Having some of those prerecording ready for you that you can add a little intro on, makes it super easy for you not to miss those times because not to go a whole month, our life gets away from all of us. This is a busy time of year. You said to me that you want to expand your reach and extend your business. You want to do that smartly within the community that’s going to become your best customers.

You don’t want to do that to have a lot of followers and a lot of friends. You want to do it in a smart way that it’s building upon itself so that it has a compounding effect over time where their community becomes your community. You have a much richer, larger community of the people you want to have conversations with, networking in, and going to help you learn so that you can learn from them as much as they learn from you. That’s our ultimate goal. Making sure that we’re being discerning about that. That’s why I want you to pick your own clips. I want you to be specific about what goes into an audiogram, who you tag, and who you share.

We don’t have to have this complex system. You can have a team or an assistant help you execute it but there are three things they have to get from you. What’s the clip I’m sharing? What’s the main question or part of the message I’m going to share? Who am I tagging in it? What’s the little question I ask them? It can be simple. You put in your episode, you hand that off to the team so they know when it’s ready. They’re going to be able to say, “Is this what you want me to post on the day for you?” or, “You post it on the day, it’s all prep for you.” It doesn’t matter how you want to do that but there can be systems and organizations set ahead of time to be doing this from the beginning because we don’t want to overwhelm ourselves with more work.

I do love that idea. That could work well for me for what I’m doing.

One of the things that I do is I unZoom. I put the timer on from the time we start talking. Keep in mind that I didn’t hit the record from the beginning. We’ve been on a call for 32 minutes but we didn’t start recording until we were at minute ten. I have my little edit notes here. On the top corner of my edit notes, I will put the time I hit record so I can do the math later. When you say something and I’m like, “That’s brilliant. I want to note that.” I’ll look at the time in the corner and I write it down, “The time is not time recording for,” so people can’t see it on the video. They won’t ever see it. It’s time for me of the time in session.

I make a note of there then I’ll subtract out the time when I started the recording. All I do is say, “The clip I want is at 20 minutes and 10 seconds.” I don’t have to tell them what it is. I tell them where to find it. My team knows me well enough to cut what I say properly. Make sure it’s a full sentence. None of that is a full thought. They know me well enough when they’ve done the show. I give them a space for it. You can make it simple for yourself and find a system like what is your keyword, “I was halfway through. I said this word or I said this phrase.” You make a note for yourself while you’re doing it. It even saves yourself a ton of time later too. Not everybody is that organized and thinks that way but if you do, that might help you.

I’ve done that. It was around fifteen minutes but I didn’t mark it so I’m fishing all over the place for it.

One of the things that I always do is leave extra time after a call. I always plan an hour for a call. It doesn’t always go for an hour. It usually goes 45 minutes or less because I plan to record about 30 minutes of content. At the end of it, I’ve left room for myself to record the intro for me to go back and double-check like, “I thought it was at fifteen minutes. Let me double-check.” I’ll run through that audio file, check it, and say, “It is at 15 minutes and 30 seconds. I’ve got it now.” If you do it right then, it will save you a ton of time later, because a lot of it is fresh in your mind. You’ll remember, “I said that before. It must be right after this.” You will take a lot less time reviewing things. I hate to relisten.

It takes a lot of time.

TBF 75 | Expanding Your Reach
Expanding Your Reach: At times, podcasting is a lonely world being on the podcaster side of it because you don’t get a lot of interaction and feedback.


It does. I don’t love to review my show. I noticed you did something interesting early on and I can see why you dropped it because it was a lot more work. You would set up your intro. That would be a specialized intro for each show and you didn’t have a formal intro and then you would run in and your music then you would transition to your interview with someone. That was a lot more work because it took more planning. The new style that you’re doing doesn’t have any detriment to the quality of the show in any way but you’ve made it easier for yourself to keep going. Those are okay choices to make.

That was so much easier.

Let’s not complicate it for ourselves. Sometimes we get a coach and producer who says, “You should do it this way because this is how a pro does it.” That pro has a team. We are 1 or 1.5, some of us. Be realistic about what you can do and serve the way that you can.

I do like the idea and I need to do better at this. Making sure to do the intro that I’m going to do right after the show because I’m already there as opposed to come back, try, and do it again.

How are your guests sharing? Are they doing a good job of sharing for you?

Some do a better job than others. The ones that I’ve had that haven’t are not as good on social media. I’ve had some researchers on here that it’s not their space to be sharing it with others but the content they’ve provided has been valuable.

A strategy might be to reach out to their organization. When their researcher is within another organization, there’s a publicist or someone else within the organization, someone who runs the company, or the social media accounts. You can find them and do a corporate search in LinkedIn to find all the other people who work for the corporation or organization. If you can do that and tag those people in the comment, not in the post saying, “Your boss was featured here,” or “The head of your company was featured here.” They may not notice it or see it because their boss wasn’t good at sharing or talking about themselves on doing something.

That might be a way around that to help. For your purposes, you’re going to learn a lot more. Your audience is going to learn a lot more from someone who’s the perfect fit for the topic, the show, or what you want. Not necessarily by the people who are good at social media. You need the variety. If you find someone who’s great at LinkedIn, then take them because they’re going to be good at making sure that you get shared and that’s valuable too.

That’s the one area that I found because it’s not a platform that they use much. I’ve reached out to them either the study that they had published or something else, not through social media.

Have you done a lot of podcast swaps?

Create conversations instead of pushing information. Click To Tweet


For those of you who don’t know what that is, that’s where you would go on a podcast show and they would come on your show. You offer them a guest appearance and it needs to be a fit. They need to have the same audience match. That’s what is ideal. It doesn’t matter how big their audience is. If there’s an audience match between the two of you, you should do it. Doing it for publicity purposes to have a lot of podcasts that you’ve been on, that’s a different strategy. I’m talking about a listener swap that you eventually want.

By exposing yourself to their listener and their listeners getting exposed to you, the crossing of your listenership is valuable for both of you because podcast listeners listen to seven plus shows in their area that they want to learn in and trying to grow in. They don’t listen to one show. You’re not going to lose the audience by doing that. You’re going to be the guy who brought them this wonderful guest. They’re not going to want to give up on your show because they heard somebody they liked. They’re going to try their show too. That’s what you want from a guest swapping situation. That’s a good way for you to go about doing that.

I like that idea.

Find some shows that you would personally listen to. Ask that networking community of yours. Ask her former clients like, “What podcasts do you listen to? Who do you follow?”

I can think of a few. That could be a good fit.

They’re looking for the same thing you are. Swapping is not a hard ask.

That’s one thing that I’ve recognized too. I’ve had some people reach out to me, like publicists that want to have somebody on the show but it’s not a fit for what I’m talking about.

That’s the agencies that are not doing a good job where they’re buying a list and then they’re sending a mass email out to everyone. It’s hurting the podcast guesting community. We need to be very discerning as hosts about who we invite on. I’ve done a lot of interviews and what I’ve discovered over time is that when there’s an audience match, everyone benefits and it has a long-term residual value. You got a return on investment for your time even if you’re going to go on somebody else’s show. It’s got to be valuable for you.

Be a very good sharer on the other side. If you share better than they do then they feel bad about it. That’s my goal. I’m always one of the best repurposers and re-sharers of having been a guest on their show showing them how it should be done. That’s my career, my company, and my job so I should be good at it and be able to demonstrate that. When you do that, there’s a Law of Reciprocity that kicks in there. They were like, “I better share this show now.”

It’s your subtle way of telling me that I’ve got to be sharing it.

TBF 75 | Expanding Your Reach
Expanding Your Reach: Coming into a new year, people want to see 2020 leave and 2021 come in. This is a perfect opportunity to do some of the things to set yourself up for the new year.


Our job on our end is to give you all the assets to do that. That’s what we do. That’s what this show is particularly about. What we give to our guests are all the tools that they need so they don’t have to work hard to figure out what those social posts should be. I get it back from corporations and the social media teams. They’re going like, “Thank you. You saved me hours of work.” By the mere fact that they share it the way that I gave it to them helps my branding and my exposure. When you do it in that way, if you get a system going for that, then you’re helping your guests be better at sharing. My young daughter, they could go, “Sharing is caring.” That’s what we say here. When we care, that benevolence turns into trust factor building within your network and community. Being a good sharer is a great way to make sure that you’re building that trust in your community.

On the leadership work that I do, that’s one of the behaviors that I talk about.

Benevolence and trust-building is key to being a good leader. Patrick, is there anything else you want to cover?

My head is spinning with so many ideas that I can input.

That’s why we have a video and a recording of this. You’re graciously sharing that with our audience. They’re out there. They get to hear it, get to learn from you, and take some ideas back for themselves. I look forward to you checking back with us and letting us know what you’re doing on this as well. That’s one of the things that I’ve got to figure out the mechanism by how we’re going to do it because I haven’t figured that out yet. I want to make sure that we touch base in 90 days or in a year and see how the shift has occurred and what it’s done for you.

Tracy, not that there aren’t always times to make changes but coming into a new year, people wanting to see 2020 leave and 2021 come in. This is a perfect opportunity to do some of those things to set myself up for the new year.

If you’re like, “It’s the middle of the year because I waited too long. I didn’t catch up to this show,” you’re catching this 100 episodes or 50 episodes, picking a mark where you’re saying, “I did this for a while and it’s time to have a shift,” you can do that at any time but I agree with you. Shifting at the beginning of a year is a great plan because people expect change at that time so you didn’t just change it out from underneath them and they didn’t need more change. It’s a good time to do that. Thank you so much for coming on the show.

Thank you for those ideas.

Thank you for sharing openly about the progress of your show. Patrick, thank you so much. Learning From Leaders, you’ve got to check out his podcast.

I love working with you guys. You have been awesome for me to help. Thank you.

Thank you so much. Everyone, if you would like to learn and be coached on-air, reach out to me at TheBingeFactor.com and you could be the next show that comes up for review and we have a strategic discussion. I’m looking forward to that. I’ll be with you again next time.

Don’t miss Tracy Hazzard’s Authority Magazine article about Patrick Veroneau too!

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Tracy Hazzard

Tracy Hazzard

Tracy Hazzard is a former Authority Magazine and Inc. Magazine Columnist on disruptive innovation, and host of 5 top-ranked podcasts including: The Binge Factor and Feed Your Brand–one of CIO’s Top 26 Entrepreneur Podcasts. She is the co-founder of Podetize, the largest podcast post-production company in the U.S. As a content, product, and influence strategist for networks, corporations, marketing agencies, entrepreneurs, publications, speakers, authors & experts, Tracy influences and casts branded content with $2 Billion worth of innovation around the world. Her marketing methods and AI-integrated platform, provides businesses of all sizes a system to spread their authentic voices from video to podcast to blog, growing an engaged audience and growing valuable digital authority.
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