Branding Brilliance: Elevating Your Podcast With Personal Identity, With Joyan Chan – The Show Up Show

Join us in this insightful episode of The Binge Factor as we delve into the world of podcasting through the lens of personal branding. Tracy Hazzard brings us the transformative journey of Joyan Chan, host of Find Joy, and The Show Up Show. Joyan shares valuable insights from their own experience, where they developed multiple shows to cater to different segments of their audience. This underscores the importance of flexibility and adaptation in the dynamic landscape of podcasting as business goals evolve. Join in to gain profound insights into effective podcast branding and hosting strategies, and discover how you can unleash the full potential of your podcasting journey. Stay tuned until the end to discover what makes Joyan’s shows so compelling and how you can apply the same principles to your own show!

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Branding Brilliance: Elevating Your Podcast With Personal Identity, With Joyan Chan – The Show Up Show

I have Joyan Chan. I was on her show. She’s got The Show Up Show and Find Joy. They are fabulous shows. She is a brand yourself with podcasting expert and she’s got some great insights into how you look at doing that self-branding model of podcast. That’s what we’re going to talk about. Let me tell you a little about Joyan. She is an award-winning leadership coach, international speaker and podcaster the core of her work centers on helping leaders and entrepreneurs develop unshakeable confidence to build a rockstar personal brand, gain worldwide exposure, and earn recognition for their expertise.

She has been featured in numerous magazines, publications, and all kinds of things, and was awarded an outstanding leadership award in Dubai, the same year she was also named a successful person by British Pedia. She has such great insights because she’s juggled two shows. She’s looked at this idea of, “Does one fill my needs? What if I shift my business and how do I grow a second one?” We’re going to talk about that in our episode. Let’s read from Joanne Chen, find Joy and the show-up show.

About The Show Up Show and Find Joy Host Joyan Chan
The Binge Factor | Joyan Chan | Personal Branding

Joyan Chan is an award-winning leadership coach, international speaker, and podcaster. The core of her work centers on helping leaders and entrepreneurs develop unshakable confidence to build a Rockstar personal brand, gain worldwide exposure, and earn recognition for their expertise.

Joyan’s years of experience as a young lecturer, team leader, and business owner have given her a keen sense of what it takes to become a confident, visible, and impactful leader in today’s world. Her personal journey, which involved transforming depression into empowerment and building her brand from the ground up in just two years, inspired her to create a proven roadmap called “Rookie to Rockstar.” This roadmap guides her clients to accelerate their confidence, visibility, and impact, empowering them to embrace their true selves with joy and purpose.

Joyan has been featured in numerous magazines, publications, shows and has spoken at many industry events. In March 2022, Joyan was awarded Outstanding Leadership Award on stage in Dubai, UAE. In the same year, she was also named a successful person by Britishpedia. During her interview with the publication house, she said, “because I took the courage to take the path less taken.”

Follow Joyan Chan on Social: Facebook | Instagram | LinkedIn


Why And How Joyan Got Into Podcasting

Joyan, I’m happy to talk with you again. We had so much fun when I was on your show. I’m excited to have you on my show. We’re going to talk about Find Joy and The Show Up Show, but you started podcasting for a reason. What made you decide to dive into this world of podcasting?

That question keeps me chilling because it’s talking about the reason and the big why we all started podcasting in the very first place. When I first started podcasting, it was 2021. It was about a few years ago because we are recording this during the default. I was a nobody back then and I came online and wanted to build something for myself because I went through depression. It was because of COVID. It was the darkest period of my life. I came out from depression. I was trying to figure out, “Who am I? What do I want to do? Why am I here? What is my purpose for being here?” No one knew that I was going through depression.

I showed up online and started sharing my story because I realized I wanted to be real. I wanted to be authentic for the first time in my life because a long story short, on the outside world, I was a super achiever, young, and successful and I had all that figured out, but deep inside I didn’t. Only I knew that, which is why I suffered from high-functioning depression back then. I decided that, “Enough is enough. This is not how I want to live my life. I want to live a life with joy, authentically to show the world who I am.” I started showing out online and sharing my story, and I attracted people from all over the world, telling me, “Thank you so much for showing out and sharing the story because I’m also going through depression. I can relate to your story,” and things like that. I realized I wasn’t alone.

That gave me the confidence and the courage to keep showing up and kept showing my story despite having all this criticism and judgment and negative comments from my friends. They were like, “What are you doing?” I wanted to start a podcast so that I have a proper platform for myself to share my story. Initially, I started out wanting to with the pure intention of wanting to share my story like I did. When I first started, it was also the episodes I wanted to share my story, my experiences, give a bit of mindset tips and things like that, then I started having guests on my show and it turned out to be, I call it My Happiness Project. It was my happiness project, which is why I named it Find Joy.

I love that the model of the interviews started to creep in for you that. It wasn’t how you intended to start out, but then they started to do it. Did that connection make a bigger difference in you moving into a more joyful place?


The Binge Factor | Joyan Chan | Personal Branding


For sure. At one point in time, you’ll be like, “This is not about me anymore,” because I started out with the intention of sharing my story, but I realized, “This is not about me anymore.” It’s the other reason why I started podcasting because I listen to podcasts even before I have a podcast. I remember when I was going through depression, I was in my room. I was all depressed and I didn’t know what to do in my life, I listened to podcasts. I’m getting emotional because it’s real.

They got me through those feelings and emotions I didn’t know how to process. I realized that, “I listened to podcasts and realized that I wasn’t alone. I could seek help. By hearing other people’s stories, how they came out and how they became stronger, how they turn their pain into a purpose.” That was my biggest inspiration. Because I listen to podcasts, so I believe in podcasts.

Turn your pain into a purpose. Share on X

That’s something that if you’re not a podcaster yet, you don’t understand until that first person reaches out to you and says, “I’ve been listening to all your episodes. I’ve been binging on you. You’ve touched me in this way.” That’s when you realize the power of being in someone’s ear. I think it changes the show at that point for you. Maybe that’s where that transition happened where you realized it wasn’t all about you anymore. It was about that listener.

It’s about, “How can I serve more?” I listened to them because I asked them to take a screenshot and let me know if they are listening so I know who listened to my show from day one, and they still listen to my show now. I always listen to them and ask them, “What topic do you want me to talk about? What kind of guests do you want me to bring on?” I’m a big personal development junkie. I listen to podcasts so I want to learn.

Imagine, I could interview anyone in the world and ask them any question I want. I would love to do that. One of the reasons why I love having guests is so that I can learn from them. That’s why I love talking to people. When I bring you onto my show, I learn so much from you. That is one of the reasons why I keep pushing myself to do podcasting, to release podcasts consistently on a weekly basis like you do because you need more than one reasons to keep going. You need many reasons.

The Binge Factor | Joyan Chan | Personal Branding
Personal Branding: You need more than one reason to keep going.


You need many reasons to keep going. It’ll layer on, but that’s the best part about it. The reason that you start might be different as you go along and year over year and you’re finding a different place. somewhere along the lines here, you started a second show. Tell us about that.

It’s a crazy story. Who needs two podcasts?

I have six. I’m one of the craziest too.

Think about it. It’s crazy that you have more than one podcast. When I talked to you, I realized it’s not crazy. It’s common. It’s reasonable. When you understand the reason why you need a second podcast, something that you said to me that struck me was that you mentioned that, if you start a podcast, you can end it. You don’t have to keep going if it’s not working for you.

You can pivot it.

The Power Of Showing Up

I pivoted because remember my why was that I want to share my story, bring joy to the world and things like that. I didn’t have a business back then. I knew that, “I wanted to be a coach. I wanted to have my own business. I want to make an impact,” but I didn’t know exactly how to go about it. I tried everything. Initially, in my business, I want to help people with their confidence because that’s what I’m good at. Sown the line, as I learned more and more marketing strategies, I put in more and more work, I started showing up and learning everything, and I realized I could help others do the same because remember, I went from a nobody to the person I’m now. I realized many people starting out, don’t know what to do.

They don’t know where to start building their personal brand and that’s something that I’m good at because I build a brand from scratch. People start asking me for advice like, “Where do I start?” If everyone starts a podcast is like, “I’m afraid to go on a podcast. Who am I to talk about podcasting a post syndrome or field being judged by other people?” I realized, “I could help people with that because that is the result that I have achieved for myself and for my business.” That’s when I realized, “If there is a business that I’m going to launch, right, that I’m going to focus on helping other female entrepreneurs, and coaches to brand themself to accelerate the authority nice space than, my podcast Find Joy isn’t serving them.”

That’s more of the personal brand show. It’s the example shown. You needed a show that was about lead generation, a different model. That makes sense because there’s only going to be a small subset of your main show Find Joy that would be interested in podcasting and in personal brand creation through podcasting. You almost had to do that. It’s one of the reasons why many people start a new show rather than start and pivot the show they have because your entire audience would need to be interested podcasters that doesn’t make any sense from where you were.

I tried to do that. Before I started my second podcast, I was asking around my friends and even people who listen to my podcast, now that I people think in my own business and I have this podcast, which I love, it’s my baby, I wouldn’t want to kill it. I thought naturally I could start talking about marketing business on that podcast. I tried that. I did that. It didn’t turn out well when I looked at the numbers.

It wasn’t good enough. It’s a different reason that that audience chose you. They chose you because of your personal brand, and personality, you were reaching them and touching them emotionally, not necessarily because they wanted to learn something about marketing. That’s a different choice to make. I’m glad you split your show because some people don’t do that and then they don’t understand why their show didn’t carry the weight that it had before. It loses momentum and it also then isn’t successful in the new place that they want to be. It ends up in this weird middle. I’m glad you decided to split that. I think it’s good. The Show Up Show and I love that idea, like, “Show up,” because this is the part that I don’t think most entrepreneurs understand that 90% of being a brand, being a personality or a coach, is showing up week after week for them.

I’m all about that, which is why I name it this way I’m all about helping people to show up confidently, authentically, and unapologetically as who they are because the number one mistake people make when it comes to building their brand or when they think about a personal brand is that, “I have to be someone that I’m not.

It’s incredibly hard to maintain that.

I have to curate this social media persona per se, which is somebody that I’m not, but I’m here telling you, “No. That’s a huge mistake.” It’s about showing who you and podcasting is a perfect place for you to do that.

The biggest compliment that could happen is when you and I meet in person, we both go, “You’re exactly like you’re online.” That would be such a big compliment when people say that to you I’m very sure that’s exactly the way you are.

It’s showing up, having a good time and sharing what you know. Here’s the thing. The reason why I think people suffer from imposter syndrome is because they think they have to know all the answers, they have to have all the answers and they’re trying to be someone they are not, which is why they feel like they are imposter.

The Binge Factor | Joyan Chan | Personal Branding
Personal Branding: People suffer from imposter syndrome because they think they have to know all the answers. They’re trying to be someone they’re not.


Do you find that that’s worse for women than it is for men?


What about culturally for you?

Culturally, I would say not so much, but men and women, yes, which is why I focus much on helping female entrepreneurs. Here’s a crazy part because I was talking to many of my male friends, male entrepreneurs. It’s even weird to say that. We say female entrepreneurs naturally, but we don’t talk about male entrepreneurs because we call them entrepreneurs.

They’re all entrepreneurs.

Whereas we are like women entrepreneurs, women speakers and women podcasters. That itself is a barrier. I talk to them and they tell me, “It is true because when I wanted to reach out to a female coach, author, speaker or podcaster, they would tell me, ‘I’m not ready yet.’”

Only women turn you down. I always try to say that. I’ve never had a man who I invited on my show turn me down, but I have had women.

It’s crazy, isn’t it? Comes thinking about it, it’s because of how we were being raised. We’re told we are not good enough. We have to be quiet.

We think we have to be perfect.

We cannot do what our brothers like cousins or things like that, which is why it’s holding us back.

Don’t you think that’s the one thing I like about podcasting I think podcasting is like doing improv on the comedy clubs or something, not that I’m a comedian by any means, although my girls think I’m funnier than my husband maybe, but it gives you this freedom to ad-lib, tap in and give an answer. That’s a good thing. Guesting and interviewing, you have to think on your feet. That gets over a little bit of that barrier. What do you think?

Absolutely. I had a client and she was afraid of being on a podcast. She has never done podcasting before. I asked her why and she said, “I always think that being on a podcast, you have to be famous. You have to reach a certain level. You have to be worthy.” She mentioned the word worthy, “I didn’t think I’m worthy enough to be on podcasts.” I invited her to work with me. She did the interview, but she told the podcaster not to release the interview. It’s crazy.

That’s terrible.

There are many people out there feeling exactly what she’s feeling, which is why I want to help people to show up and share their voice, even if you’re not perfect. We are not perfect. You’re not perfect. Nobody is perfect. You have to start showing up and start sharing your voice because here thing, my practice doesn’t make perfect. Practice makes improvement.

Practice doesn't make perfection. Practice makes improvement. Share on X

I don’t like the phrase, “Practice makes perfect.” I was having this discussion with my daughter who is learning the guitar and she wants to be a rock star. She said to me that if she became a rock star, and I said, “How about when you become a rock star? The only thing standing in your way of you becoming a rock star is practice. You’re not going to get perfect because you’d have to put in 10,000 hours to be an expert.” We did the math to figure out how many hours of practice she’d have to do. I was like, “I think you’d have to quit school and practice for the next 10 years to be able to say you’re a 10,000-hour expert.”

That’s not possible right now, but that’s not the point. The point is, is the more hours you put in on practice, the better you’re going to be, the more improved you’re going to be. That’s what we need to think. You put in 200 interviews at this point that we’re talking here. That’s a lot of guests. That’s a lot of practice in there. What do you feel has been that improvement for you from the very first interview you did to the 200th recently? I thought you were a fantastic interviewer when you interviewed me. You asked great questions, but what is it that you feel like you improved in that time?

Huge. Something that I always share on my social media is that I always share my first video that I created and posted on my Facebook a few years ago. That video sucks. I mean now looking back on it, it sucks much that I didn’t want to watch it anymore, but I put it there so that I can remind myself that’s how I started and look at where I am at now. I improved so much. Here’s why I always tell my people and my client, “What you can do today is the best that you could because if you could do it better, you could have done it better. This is the best that you can do right now.”

Stop waiting for that perfect moment. Stop waiting for the moment that you feel like, “I’m ready. I’m good enough. I have everything. I have all the answers.” No, you would never be ready. You just have to start. Going back to your question, it’s all about practice. When I first interview a guest on my show, because I’ve been doing it solo, I was freaking out because I didn’t know how am I going to interview someone because I have never done it before. The reason why we have fear is because we have never done it before. We are doing something that we have not done before. How do you overcome the fear? You just have to do it.

That is every psychological practice in trying to get you over fear is to now get you to dive into it, fly on a plane, walk outside if you’re agoraphobic or whatever it is. You got to dive into it.

You have to do the things that you fear the most. It’s practice. I kept interviewing people every single week. One day when you look back, you realized, “I improved a lot. I came a long way,” but you have to keep showing up. You cannot just start a podcast and release like five episodes and then quit because you didn’t see any results or you don’t see any results. Practice helps me improve a lot. Just keep going.

Setting An Intention

Do you set goals? Do you set goals for yourself? You say like, “It’s a new year. I’m going to set a goal for the show this year.”

Not really.

Do you set an improvement metric?

I didn’t.

It’s great. You just let it flow. I love that.

I just let it flow. Here’s a huge shift that happened for myself like personally and emotionally and spiritually, is that I don’t want to plan for anything. I want to trust that everything’s already planned for me. That’s my intention for 2024. I want to trust more that everything’s already planned for me. In 2023, I set all the goals, but I didn’t achieve some of them. I said, “Okay,” but all the events or people that I met in 2023 happened for a reason. When I look back, I was like, “I didn’t achieve the goal because something better had happened. I set realistic goals that I think I can achieve.

What if they’re too low?

What if something better is about to happen for you and you are not even aware and you can’t even set the goal because you wouldn’t know. That’s my intention.

I like that you set an intention, not a goal. That’s a great way to look at it. I think that many things go wrong when we don’t trust the process. We don’t trust the experts that we hired to bring in to help us along the way. We don’t trust the groundwork that we’ve already laid. We’ve already laid a bunch of work. I guarantee you, didn’t start posting on Facebook with no friends already. You didn’t start from scratch. You already had groundwork there that you were building on.

From people who are starting out, here’s what I will ask them, “Who is the person that you want to become three years down the road?” When I first started, I saw myself not as a podcaster, but more like an influencer per se and entrepreneur speaking on stages and empowering the world and the audience. That was the vision that I had in my mind, and then I asked myself, “What can I do today? How can I start showing up as that person?” I did just that and three years, later I became the president because I first had the vision of the person that I wanted to become. For everything that we do, that’s how you build a brand. You have to know what exactly are you building towards. Who is the person that you want to become because your personal brand is you? It’s about you.

This idea is that you have a strategy and an intention that you set, the two things are running in place. You said, “This is my strategy. I’m going to be podcasting.” My intention is to trust that this is the right process for me because I selected it and I’m going to see where it takes me and where it goes I’m going to show up authentically me each time that I do it. I think that’s beautiful. It’s got all the pieces you need in it. There are tactics and other things, but when you layer them on later, you don’t need them to get started.

You don’t have to have everything figured out to get started, but you have to start to figure things out.

The Binge Factor | Joyan Chan | Personal Branding
Personal Branding: You don’t have to have everything figured out to get started. But you have to start to figure things out.


I like the way you said that. That’s great. You have to start to figure things out, and that’s it. I think it’s interesting that you started with solo shows. I find that with my client base and for the most part, solo shows are harder because you are carrying everything. It’s all you. It feels harder. You think them over. My clients who do solo shows rerecord them in the beginning and they shouldn’t. They should go for it. I have a strategy that I use with them, which is I get them to do three shows in a row. I want them to record day 1, 2 and 3. The first day is short. “

Why am I doing this? What’s in it for you, the listener? I’m talking to my listener.” It’s like doing a promo, but getting them to do that. It’s not allowed to be more than five minutes long. Whatever happens, it’s only five minutes. That’s all you have to do, get on the mic. Mainly it’s to make sure that they know how to use the mic and stuff like that they get comfortable behind it. I want them to get used to talking to the listener. The first thing that I do is to get them to be conscious of that. The second one is I like a lot of times they need to get their story out of the way.

I want you to talk about your story, purpose and your hottest topic. If your show is about business or about something like that, “What is the question that you answer the most for people? Let’s get that hot topic, that one that we address all the time, every time people make us repeat. Let’s get that one out of the way.” That’s the next thing that they record and that’s 15 to 20 minutes maximum, keeping it in that world. The last one that they do, the third thing is an interview. I want them to test out all the pieces of it because they’ve got to learn how to promo or how to carry sometimes the conversation, do an introduction, a closing thought or share a lesson. I want them to be able to do those things then they have to carry an interview if they’re going to grow their show with other people’s audiences.

That’s my typical order,  but very often I take someone who I think is afraid of the interview, and I make them do it first. I make them choose someone who’s their friend. If all else fails and they can’t do it, I’m like, “You’re going to interview me.” I make them interview me if that’s the last one because it’s always okay to not air it if you don’t feel good about it. The friend will understand you didn’t burn your interview if you’re on your top list.

You can interview people for the sake of practicing.

They don’t realize when they’re going to interview one of the things that I think your strength is that when we’re having a conversation, you’re going to show up. You’re at some point going to get out of your head in it because it doesn’t feel like an interview. It feels like a conversation.

That’s how I approach podcasting. It’s not about interviewing, asking or answering a question. It’s a conversation. That’s why people listen to your podcast. I can be very honest with you and your listeners and other podcasts and I didn’t like it. It’s like they didn’t even know what they were doing because they just, “Ask me a question.” It’s an interview.

They want a soundbite.

Once I answered their question, they asked the next question. I was like, “I felt awkward, to be very honest.” It’s a skill. A lot of people out there are teaching you how to start podcasts because podcasting is a trend right now. It’s going to be huge. A lot of people can teach you how to start podcasts, what equipment, what microphone, what platform or how to record it? Nobody is going to teach you the soft skills. They teach you hard skills, but nobody is going to teach you soft skills which is what you and I are good at. Not to brag, but you know, if you’re listening to us. You need to succeed in podcasting

Building An Emotional Connection

I think that’s the difference. I think I may have said this to you when I was on your show. There’s a difference in the fact that you’re a listener. You started out as a podcast listener makes a very big difference to the show itself. I can tell the difference between someone who started a podcast and is a listener and someone who is a speaker author, they were somewhere else and then they thought, “This podcasting thing, I can do this.” They go and transfer those skills that they had in other places to podcasting and it doesn’t work quite the same way. There’s a difference there. I always try to psychoanalyze your binge factor. That’s one of the things that I do here on the show I think that’s what I hear in your show specifically Find Joy, but in The Show Up Show.

You are searching out there for the thing that’s going to connect to the audience. When you’re asking your questions, when you’re talking with your guests, you may not fully know them, but when you hear them say something that you know your audience is going to be interested in or you are very interested in, you go for it. A lot of people leave that on the table. That is not the best way to make an emotional connection to your audience. That’s what your binge factor is on Find Joy and on The Show Up Show.

The Show Up Show is more like a business podcast, whereas Find Joy is more personal and emotional. It is about connecting with my listeners on an emotional level. I talk about spirituality, relationship for example. I would like to say that one of my superpowers is that I can make people feel comfortable, which is very important. How do you make people feel comfortable enough to open up to you when they don’t even know you yet when it’s their first time meeting you?

For most of my guests, I don’t know them, they don’t know me. The first time we come together, but always at the end of the show, after we stop the recording, they’ll tell me, “I feel very comfortable speaking with you. You made me feel comfortable.” It’s one of my superpowers. How do you let people feel comfortable first? You have to be comfortable with yourself first.

That’s the hard part for a lot of people.

You have to open up and be vulnerable. I cried at the beginning of this podcast. It’s not intense.

No one’s ever cried on my show and it happened twice in two days. I don’t know what I’m doing this year, but twice in two days, I made somebody cry on my show.

It’s a good start.

It’s a great start. I think that we all have a lot of emotion right now, and it’s when someone says to us, “You’re doing a good job at this,” it feels like it hits us right at a moment in time when we need to hear that.

By showing your emotions, you are telling your listeners, “I’m real. I’m not perfect. I know exactly how you’re feeling because you might be feeling exactly the same,” because you never know. People are going through what they’re going through. With social media, everything we put out there is curated. We only show the good side of our business, but we don’t show the vulgar side of who we are and what we going through. That’s the story of my depression, which is why I’m all about that.

I’m glad that we met and we’ve come to know each other here because I do think that there’s a lot of opportunity in podcasting, especially for women. I’m glad that you’re out there supporting them, getting them moving and launching, but getting them to have a strategy. That’s the thing that sometimes it doesn’t have to be a big strategy. It doesn’t have to be grand. It can be, “I just want to connect with people, find joy and share my story.” It doesn’t have to be big, but it needs to have a why, a strategy, a purpose, and then we can layer in the right tactics once we know those things. Otherwise, I think it makes it hard for you to take advice, seek advice, ask the right questions, and get that advice because it’s not one size fits all in podcasting.

When I first started, I didn’t have a strategy. I had my why, which is why I think the first question that every aspiring podcaster should ask themselves is, “Why do I want to start a podcast?” I have a strong why, which kept me going even though the going was tough. In my first show, I had a why I didn’t have a strategy. I didn’t think about monetization at first. I was like, “This is my purpose. This is what I’m here to do. I want to do that for free. “

I didn’t expect any monetary return, but eventually, I attracted sponsors. When you are putting yourself out there, opportunities will come to you like for sure. You have to put yourself out there.You have to show people what you’re capable of doing and what you’re passionate about because passion sells. If you start a podcast with the intention of, “I want to make money. I want to get sponsors,” it’s all about that, then you will struggle.

When you are putting yourself out there, opportunities will come to you. Passion sells. Share on X

I find that most people aren’t willing to do the amount of work it takes to attract sponsors. If it’s not passionate about it, they don’t want to work that hard.

I’m sure you know this. Sponsorship wouldn’t get you a lot of money. When you realize that, “It’s not making you a lot of money,” then you’ll quit and you will not get sponsors in the first year because it’s all about building an audience. We all know building an audience takes time. In the first year, if you’re not getting any money, you’re not making any money from podcasting, and you’re putting all the work, effort and editing, you will burn out.

If you don’t have a why to keep going, like if your why is all about making money, then I’m not saying it’s wrong. If that is one of your strategies for a business, great. You need to have a strategy like you said. For me, the short show is a strategy for my business, which is why one is pure passion. I get sponsors great. If I don’t, fine. I still love what I do. I’m still going to do it, but my short show is more strategic. I have a strategy because I still run the business. I see it as a marketing platform and a lead-generation machine.

What do you see as the biggest challenge over there on The Show Up Show? What is the biggest challenge in marketing a business through a podcast for you?

Not as many podcasts out there as compared to YouTube channels, but there are still quite a lot of podcasts, which is why it’s quite saturated and how do you stand out? One of the questions that I see you when I interview you on my podcast is, “How do you stand out in the podcasting space when there are many other people, other experts teaching, sharing exactly what you’re teaching, sharing on the podcast?” Why would they want to listen to you is the fringe factor. The biggest struggle far is, “How do I attract new listeners?” This is a question. There’s a struggle.

I think you’re not alone in that. Probably, the number one thing I get here is the hardest thing about podcasting is attracting new listeners, people who don’t know you yet, “I can get people who know me to come find my show. That’s not a problem, but I can’t get people who don’t know me yet if it’s as hard as it is.” Unfortunately, the ecosystem of podcasting doesn’t make it easy for us. Mastering social media, email marketing, funnel, guesting or whatever that might be is required in that process of it. The biggest issue and one of the ones that you solve with your business and with your show is this idea of being focused about it because if you are not focused and you’re trying to do everything to anyone and get any listener on your show, that’s a whole lot harder than getting the right listener to your show.

It’s the same with business. We all heard before, “Riches is in the niches.” You have to niche now. That’s what we talk about in business. When it comes to podcasting, it’s the same. You have to niche now. You have to focus on one topic, which is what The Show Up Show is all about. It’s helping people to show up, whether that’s marketing, podcasting, branding. The Find Joy is about finding joy in relationships and spirituality. It is about finding joy in all aspects of your life. I would like to say that I know what I’m doing, but I figured it out along the way. I had it all figured out, which is why I said the second podcast, I try and test it and it didn’t work. I realized, “I need a second podcast.” My main message for this podcast is just get started.

Just get started. Share on X

Find Joy and The Show Up Show are available everywhere you listen to podcasts. You’re going to want to go check them out, please. Find out more about what she’s doing and what she’s bringing to this podcasting world. Joyan Chan, thank you so much for being with me. Thank you for reaching out and connecting with me. That’s how we found each other. You reached out to me and I love that we connected and we have now done a podcast swap. We’re going to continue to promote each other and each other’s businesses.

I have one more thing to say. We need many reasons to start a podcast to keep going is that I get to talk to people and I get to make friends.

I’m very sure we’re going to stay friends. I know it’s one of my favorite parts about podcasting too. Thank you so much for being here. We will talk again soon.

For sure. Thank you so much for reading.

I was on her show. I loved the idea of having something personal that you start with. Find Joy was such a personal show for her because it had her name on it. It was about what she was seeking. It was a personal mission coming out of the pandemic. She was looking for that. In the process of podcasting, like many other people, and myself included, she found her calling. She found that business model that she wanted to run, the thing that she felt that she was great at, that added value to her show, but also added value to the service that she could bring to the world. That’s this rockstar strategy model for branding a podcast, putting the podcasting within the brand and you within that podcast. Making both things tie together.

I think it’s interesting to think about this idea of a brand, and I love it when it’s a play on words, Find Joy. It expresses what she’s looking for, but it also has a play on her name. I think that’s a fantastic way to incorporate yourself into the brand, but when you make it The Joyan Chan Show or The Tracy Hazzard Show, it has less life. That’s why I appreciated it when she went in to go do her second show. It was about the service, branding and the business that she was building. She called it The Show Up Show. It has its own entity and its own name. It’s being driven by what it brings to the world, not who you are in the world. Think about what your purpose is, what your strategy is, and how you want that brand to fit into your podcast and how that podcast fits into your brand.

When you bring those two together in a strategy, it makes that clear. It makes, “What’s my show called? Who’s it for? What’s it about? What’s the strategy of it? How it works?” and getting that ideal client or listener focus on it. When you get that right, that strategy in place, then you’re ready to launch. When you don’t have it, you need to have the flexibility to be able to change and grow. Sometimes you start a show that doesn’t have that full-on life that you need it to as your business shifts and changes and you have to start a second show. It’s the reason I have Feed Your Brand and the Binge Factor because the strategy wasn’t quite the same for one versus the other.

It’s the same audience. There’s definitely the same audience and there’s lots of overlap in what we do, but its focus was getting muddied by trying to do too much in one show. Joy found that here. Find Joy and The Show Up Show are fantastic shows, but they’re very different models focused on a very different segment of her audience. She understood that quickly, made that shift and made that new show happen.

You can learn so much from Joyan Chan. Go ahead and listen to me on her show as a difference in understanding like how that model is, how she is as a host and not just as a guest. I love it when I have these pair-ups. You could see the difference between the two. It makes it more fun for everything. Go check out, Find Joy and The Show Up Show. Check out Joyan Chan everywhere in the podcasting space. Thank you so much for joining me. I’ll be back with another podcaster and another perspective on the podcasting industry.


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Tracy Hazzard

Tracy Hazzard is a former Authority Magazine and Inc. Magazine Columnist on disruptive innovation, and host of 5 top-ranked podcasts including: The Binge Factor and Feed Your Brand–one of CIO’s Top 26 Entrepreneur Podcasts. She is the co-founder of Podetize, the largest podcast post-production company in the U.S. As a content, product, and influence strategist for networks, corporations, marketing agencies, entrepreneurs, publications, speakers, authors & experts, Tracy influences and casts branded content with $2 Billion worth of innovation around the world. Her marketing methods and AI-integrated platform, provides businesses of all sizes a system to spread their authentic voices from video to podcast to blog, growing an engaged audience and growing valuable digital authority.
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